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phil 17sl Profile
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Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


The street legal studded class spec tire is made by Nokian. It is the Hakkapeliitta model. Or Hakka for short.

Most of us are running Hakka 7's or 8's or a combination of the two.

Nokian has now released the Hakka 9. If you go with the Hakka 9 this season please update us via this thread, on how the 9 works with your application.

Let us know how you broke your tires in. Same for stud loss issues by tire position.

Stud loss has been a variable issue with 7's and 8's. Stud loss may be related to break in mileage before racing.

I did Hakka 7 studded tire testing prior to AMEC's re-adoption of a studded tire class. I put on over 600 miles to set the studs. The 7's still lost studs!

When we went to Hakka 8's, I put on 800 miles and it proved insufficient. I believe it was Ed Tucker who reported back they needed 1200 miles or more to set the studs!

We don't know what will be needed to set the studs on the new Hakka 9's. But this is the place to let us know how your 9's are holding up and working in the conditions we have.

Hakka 7's, when used as we use them, had the greatest stud loss problem. Carbide points also seemed susceptible to breaking with dry pavement use.

That did not appear to be a problem with the Hakka 8's. Reports coming back from those who had used both indicated the 8's were holding up better than the 7's and working better on the ice, as well.

The assumption is that the next iteration, the Hakka 9 will be an improvement. Keep in mind that's something that's not always the case!

Those of us who updated to Blizzak Revo's during the unstudded era where the Bridgestone Blizzak was the go to tire, found the Revo to be less competitive than the one it replaced!

Will that be the case with the new Hakka 9? Or will it be an improvement on all levels?

Your experiences (good, bad and ugly) with your Hakka tires will be helpful to your fellow racers. Please log them here!




Phil LePore
#17sls

  

Last edited by phil 17sl, 12/28/2017, 8:46 am
12/27/2017, 5:54 pm Link to this post Send Email to phil 17sl   Send PM to phil 17sl
 
spk57 Profile
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Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


I do not run in SL BUT if I was going to I would BAKE my tires in the sun for a season before using them to race! emoticon
12/27/2017, 8:24 pm Link to this post Send Email to spk57   Send PM to spk57
 
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Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


There's no question heat and age play into tire traction when it comes to R compound pavement track tires. The various racing tire services will heat cycle your tires so you don't have to.

Heat cycling R compound race tires does for them what bedding in your pads does for your brakes. Both last longer and work better.

Whether "winter" studded tires and Hakka's in particular improve from baking in the sun or heat cycling, is not known.

What we do know is the rubber compounds used today are pretty sophisticated. We know some tire manufacturers will caution about using certain "summer" tires when temperatures go below 40F because the traction goes away.

Winter tire rubber is compounded to remain soft at sub freezing temps. Does leaving them in the summer sun and heat improve them? Maybe some who race with us can weigh in.

Phil
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Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


Let's look at what a heat cycle is, and what it does to the tire. We will concentrate on the tread compound, but there are similar benefits for the other compounds in the race tire that actually hold everything together. To understand what happens in a heat cycle, let's talk about the molecules that make up the compound. For those of you who don't remember your high school chemistry classes, the molecules that make up polymers are long chains of atoms. To kind of visualize this, think of a bunch of rubber bands. Imagine that they have all been cut with a pair of scissors so that they are not closed loops anymore. Now throw a bunch of them into a box and shake it up. Those represent the polymer molecules.

In addition to being highly intermingled, these molecules are connected, (or attracted), to each other by a variety of chemical networks. For simplicity, we will refer to all of these networks as chemical bonds. These bonds, (or attractions), are what we are concerned with here. During the manufacturing process, these bonds form in a more or less disorganized way. Some of the bonds are very short and strong. Some of them are very long and weak. The rest of them vary between the two.

Now, when you take that tire and run it, things start to happen. The molecules get stretched and compressed. This first causes the weaker bonds that connect these molecules to break. When the bonds break, heat is generated. As the heat builds and the flexing continues, more bonds break, more heat is generated, stronger bonds break, more heat is generated, and so on... Remember that these bonds are what connect the molecules to each other. They give the compound its strength. When this strength is reduced, the compound can't grip the road surface as well. It rubs off instead of holding together. The result is less grip, more slip on the road surface, more heat generated, and more tread wear.

So then, what happens in a heat cycle that can improve the performance and durability of your brand new tires? Well, actually, the situation described above is the first step in the heat cycle process. You want to break all of those "uneven" bonds. What happens next is where the real magic of alchemy comes into play. After these bonds have broken, and this heat has been generated, and the tires are finally allowed to be set aside and relax, the bonds tend to REFORM! But now they reform in a much more uniform manner! This means that they are more consistent in strength. Therefore, the compound becomes more resistant to losing its strength the next time the tires are run. That doesn't mean that you can't make the tires give up anymore. The bonds will still break if you exceed the limits of the compound, (both mechanical and thermal). But they will be more resistant to it because they are working together now as equals (in parallel), instead of individually (in series). And, given the time to relax again, they will reform again in the same uniform manner. Here is the most important thing to learn, and remember about this process. These bonds MUST be given ENOUGH TIME to do their magical reformation. The tires must be allowed relax for an absolute minimum of 24 hours after that initial heat cycle. If you don't give the tires enough time to reform those bonds though, then you are going out on tires with a weakened compound and their performance will show it. Understanding how this works, and how to use it to your advantage, is important to getting the most from your tires.

---
Racing1a
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Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


I ran both Hakk 7s and 8s. The 7s I got about 300 miles of street miles before racing on them. I was running them on a Neon, and I found that they started losing studs when the rubber started showing signs of deterioration around the stud holes, and when I used a heavy foot and had lots of wheelspin.

I ran Hakk 8s on a Miata, and with only about 150 street miles to set the studs I have lost perhaps one or two studs on each tire in two seasons of use. The rubber is showing some signs of degradation around the stud holes, but I haven't seen the same loss as with the 7s. I believe the Miata was also much easier on tires than the Neon was.

-Karl
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Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


I will be [sign in to see URL] do not know the science behind it. What I do know is that i have been around ice racing since 1971 when my Dad started. I realize tire compounds have changed ( A LOT) over the years, but baking the tires was always one of the best "tricks" for stud retention. I am willing to bet it still works w/todays tires!
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posticon Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


I ran Hakka 8's last year and did well, Won a race on em, the amount of studs I lost can be counted on one hand. That said, My cabrio is great on the ice and I only drive it during sno storms etc, (practice) No contact there either,LOL I will be running a new set of 9's this year, I will keep ya posted. Scott
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Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


There are some other sub reasons for stud loss. Driver, power, weight on the wheels, tire pressure.
First the driver should try to be a little more gentle on the tires and eliminate wheel spin, a spinning tire has less traction than one that is gripping the ice. Skip the down shift and let the engine work in it's lower power band.
A heavy car will be harder on the tires.
Tire pressures too low or too low can deform the tread.
Rotation, just like your street tires can help.

---
Richard Vedder
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Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


For what it's worth, I was talking with Mike Kamm who attended the Nokian product introduction which included the Hakka 9.

Mike called the new Hakka 9's a borderline competition tire!

Whooo weee! (assuming it lives up to that)

The new tire is currently available in a limited number of smaller sizes for the older cars. Don't despair if you don't see your size there as that could change by next season.

It looks like at least 9 of you will be on the new Hakka 9 this season.

If you can, try to let us how the new 9's are working for you. It would be helpful to know the following:

Did you break your tires in?

If so, how?

Did you lose studs? How many from each tire?

Where were those tires positioned?

What kind of car were you driving?

What tire pressures were you running?

Did your car have a limited slip diff, etc.

LSD's balance out power delivery to the driving wheels and that may or may not affect stud retention.

If there's anything else you'd like to know about the Hakka 9's, feel free to add it above.


Phil 17sls





   
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Re: Street Legal Hakkapeliitta Studded Tire Discussion Thread


Suggested break in for studded tires.
Slow driving not over 31mph for 62 miles.
Not over 62 mph for the next 248 miles.
Since the 9's are somewhat differently made break in may be less.

---
Richard Vedder
1/2/2018, 3:20 pm Link to this post Send Email to rc vedder   Send PM to rc vedder Blog
 


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