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Tim Stevens Profile
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Re: Towel City Retreading


Why don't we just require that all SL cars run with these mounted on their front bumpers?

Image

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#464 in SL4
http://www.theroadshow.com
3/5/2010, 9:33 am Link to this post Send Email to Tim Stevens   Send PM to Tim Stevens
 
zx2 2000 Profile
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Re: Towel City Retreading


John and all.
That is exactly what I am thinking.
How did this no traction thing suddenly raise its uggly head ?
I think some is caused by the quality of ice that we had. Hard and smooth with practically
no snow.
Perhaps the shorter tracks, as some have said, may have contributed.


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Richard C. "Dick" Vedder
AMEC Chief Steward
3/5/2010, 11:10 am Link to this post Send Email to zx2 2000   Send PM to zx2 2000
 
Mike Kamm Profile
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Re: Towel City Retreading


Here's a random thought. I don't expect it to go anywhere, but for what it's worth I'd love to see an unlimited rubber to ice division of SL.

I'm talking tractionized Towel City tires and lightened cars. I'd love see the looks on the $30-k AWD driver's faces when they get lapped by a FWD car.
3/5/2010, 12:20 pm Link to this post Send Email to Mike Kamm   Send PM to Mike Kamm
 
Tim Stevens Profile
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Re: Towel City Retreading


Well, my car is (very) sub $30k, but I for one would be smiling, waving, and getting the *ahem* out of your way, Mike emoticon

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#464 in SL4
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3/5/2010, 1:37 pm Link to this post Send Email to Tim Stevens   Send PM to Tim Stevens
 
phil 17sl Profile
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Re: Towel City Retreading


Richard raises the question about how did this no traction thing suddenly raise its ugly head.

Well, I'll take responsibility for being the one listening to all the comments and bringing them up as a topic here for discussion.

It seems this season everyone has been talking about how slick it became when things got polished out. I could hear where the fun factor was turning to frustration when the traction went away.

Jon Bronk who has put in a number of terrific wins, brought up a couple points. Bridgestone sponsorship being one of them.

It's a valid concern because top finishers get Bridgestone money at the end of the season. I got Bridgestone money, last year, too.

Would it happen if folks were on all different tires? I'd say you'd have to talk to Bridgestone.

Under current AMEC rules, there isn't any spec tire for SL. Tire manufacturers are open. We have a choice especially for anyone looking at trying something different next season.

Tractionizing is the only new piece on the table. It came from a search of what other clubs were doing for tires in their rubber to ice classes. It turned out the Canadians were tractionizing Blizzaks. As I mentioned previously they said it was the only way to go with Bridgestones.

That understanding coupled with seeing a tractionizer in action at the racing equipment show in Syracuse is pretty much how tractionizing wound up on this table.

Mike Kamm's notion of what amounts to a free-for-all with rubber to ice tires and lightened cars is worth tossing around, too. But at this moment it's perhaps a bit premature because decisions have to be made about whether we even move in the direction of allowing tractionizing in 2011 or 2012.

The downsides were previously mentioned. The upside is traction when we need it most. For that last half of the race.

Should we consider purchasing a tractionizer and doing testing next season. Get folks on tractionized tires to see what they are like before making a final descision to put it in the rules?

Or should we just forget it?

Phil

3/5/2010, 6:57 pm Link to this post Send Email to phil 17sl   Send PM to phil 17sl
 
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Re: Towel City Retreading


To really settle the issue as to which is better, Bridgestone unmolested, Towel City unmolested, then both tractionized should be run in a controlled test similar to what The Tire Rack does.
Do it on a Saturday afternoon after the track has been plowed.Or not.
Acceleration, 0-30 a slalom and maybe a partial circle.
The test would be done with one car to eliminate any traction differences. Could be one driver or maybe more.
This would solve the whole question.
The only real question is who/what would finance any costs.

The Towel City "test" was just the opinion
of three experienced SL drivers,which does carry some weight.
As for tractionizing, I have talked to a couple longtime SL drivers and they do not want to "chew" up their Blizzaks.
The point being that new Blizzaks are good for two or more seasons,how long will tractionized tires last.

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Richard C. "Dick" Vedder
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3/6/2010, 10:44 am Link to this post Send Email to zx2 2000   Send PM to zx2 2000
 
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Re: Towel City Retreading


Hi guys, i like reading your ideas on rubber to ice trials and tribulations. I have used tractionized blizzaks(still have them) and that's the way to go for non stud racing. one of our club members has a tractionizer from finland and we all have used it at one time or another, now that we use studded tires for our endurance races,non studded tires only work well on snowy,wet tracks.The only problem that we have encountered with the tractionized tires is if they get warm, the little "threads" all glue together and now you have a slick. bob koenig nmira
3/6/2010, 10:41 pm Link to this post Send Email to glhs43a   Send PM to glhs43a
 
snowphun Profile
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Re: Towel City Retreading


quote:

ZX2 2000 wrote:

John and all.
That is exactly what I am thinking.
How did this no traction thing suddenly raise its uggly head ?
I think some is caused by the quality of ice that we had. Hard and smooth with practically
no snow.
Perhaps the shorter tracks, as some have said, may have contributed.



You answered your own question: shorter tracks were the norm this year, they polish much more severely. Lack of snow and ice conditions took care of the rest. Had we had the SL numbers of old (50+ cars) it would have gotten worse even faster. I recall 1.5 mile tracks of a few years back and conditions were much more consistent.

Driving within the traction available is certainly part of the challenege and a skill, but that doesn't make it as much fun (for most of us) as having better grip.

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Paul Norman
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3/7/2010, 6:20 pm Link to this post Send Email to snowphun   Send PM to snowphun
 
phil 17sl Profile
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Re: Towel City Retreading


Rob from New Meadows, RV and Paul, thanks much for your comments and for adding to the discussion base here.

I'm in Florida visiting family as I write this. You know I'm a sick puppy if I'm talking ice racing when it's 75 degrees outside!

Keep in mind, this thread is about adding fun to what we do. Tractionizing gets us more control when the ice gets polished. More control equals more fun. This is about doing what's needed to have more fun.

A little birdie told me at the meeting Monday night there was little interest in tractionizing when it was mentioned.

Understandable. Besides it was mentioned elsewhere there are tires out there (Towel City, for example) that have an edge on Blizzaks. Why bother with tractionizing when everyone can just get Towel City tires next year? Right?

Well, the idea with tractionizing (having a tractionizer) is to expand our options. Sure we can all buy new tires. But here's a way to make soft tires out of what we already have. Tires that will work better in the conditions we now find ourselves racing under.

Additionally, the next wave of manufacturer winter tires are likely to put "Green" considerations at the top of their list. It means their new tires, such as the WS70's Bridgestone just released, may not be as good for our needs as their previous generation tires.

Now if we had the capacity to tractionize old Blizzaks and new too, it wouldn't matter how hard or unsuitable they were. They could simply be "treated." Being able to tractionize tires also gives us options with what may be coming down the pike.

Phil

3/10/2010, 7:31 pm Link to this post Send Email to phil 17sl   Send PM to phil 17sl
 
zx2 2000 Profile
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Re: Towel City Retreading


Phil, all of your thoughts are based on speculation with no proof that tractionizing is a viable option.
Whereof is the information on this WS70?
I haven't been able to find any information,even on Bridgestones' web site.

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Richard C. "Dick" Vedder
AMEC Chief Steward
3/11/2010, 10:28 am Link to this post Send Email to zx2 2000   Send PM to zx2 2000
 


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